@CritterFritter You go 0 miners so you’re not a credible source. Sorry.
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@CritterFritter This is a mining community for people with miners. Rockies are not welcome here 😂.
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The 4DSky unit alone is priced good, around €450. But what kills it is the price for the license wich is almost double the price of the hardware at €800 (excluding antenna and cables)
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@Donm3ga When you compare the costs dollar for dollar, An average-quality Bitcoin miner typically runs around $3,000 for the device, and to get an effective, competitive unit you’re realistically looking at $8,000–$10,000. On top of that to start seeing profit vs. The Pooled Mining Farms that are out there already. the annual electrical cost to operate a BTC miner averages roughly $500.
a Jetvision sensor costs about $6 per year to operate. So not only do you save substantially lower cost up front, but year over year you’re not sinking money into a power-hungry, highly speculative investment.
With that in mind, estimating $400 for a license on a top-tier mining/aviation sensor becomes laughable in comparison
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@Donm3ga let me explain this more clearly how pricing is structured…
The 450 EUR ($530) price is for a single antenna unit at cost price. Jetvision sell the units for cheap, to feed and benefit their own network. Without any rewards, the network has grown slowly. 4DSKY is changing that by giving back to the contributors of the network
The retail price of $985 unlocks the device, pays for marketing, sales, distribution, and support. Trust me, but the majority of hardware devices have margins between 50-70%. This sensor actually has comparatively low margins, and is priced as competitively as possible.
Whilst I accept it's still not cheap, people need to weigh up actual ROI. Do you want a cheap way to pump n dump a token, or do you want a high quality device that can earn you a healthy ROI year on year.
Jetvision sensors are already used by Flightradar24 and Flightaware today. Hardware matters, and revenue is key
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looks promising. unfortuantely i’m locked out from wingbits so this gets my vote
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@bedwardsnet Wingbits’ capabilities are not even close to Neuron’s. Wingbits has very limited range, they cannot high demand tasks like high-altitude or long-range aircraft tracking. More importantly wingbits has a much higher latency and, well its “designed” for clustered areas with drones, it has roughly 3x the time between pings. Which means longer period on time where drones are “flying blind.”
Wingbits says the would like high-end client like drone-delivery based companies, But what company would select a lower-grade sensor with restricted and weaker performance?
They might have a token, which has helped them expand, but any project can shill a token, real usecase adoption is going to take real utility, and you can shill bad metrics.
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@Tanis_P All good if you prefer 4dsky over Wingbits, but your statements incorrectly frame Wingbits for both capabilities of current hardware and current project intent. Both projects can co-exist and thrive without doing this.
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Overall I am skeptical of aviation DePINs, largely due to the troubles wingbits faced in getting their coin to TGE. They have delayed it so many times, I am not sure if it will even launch. 4Dsky is another aviation DePIN, not sure when it will TGE
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@Brunator thats the issue when you shill a basisless token and pray you can figure out the tech side in time. Neuron has been building their tech for 4 years already and hasn't shilled an empty token, because it has the right values.
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The project looks promising. It’s good to see healthy competition emerging against platforms like Wingbits
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It looks like a real good project. But i think, its realy expansive. And also there is Wingbits - I’d like to onboard 4dsky, but not with this huge investment.
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@Carigo Actually when you look at the quality of the hardware, it’s 100x better than the wingbits hardware. The wingbits models break down constantly due to poor design and cheap production. A simple thunderstorm can fry your unit in seconds requiring you to get a whole new unit through support and put it on your roof. You can, of course, get a lightning arrestor from HD but you gotta go back on the roof to install it. Wingbits can only do ADB-S tracking
The 4Dsky models won’t break down from thunderstorms, they are higher quality build from a manufacturer with proven aviation experience. They can do ADB-S, FLARM and UAT tracking which is the type of data required by government/airport clients. ADB-S is only really valuable for hobbyist clients.
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The project looks promising,its good to see competition with project like wingbits
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I like 4DSky, quite easy setup and very stable so far. Though the miner its quite big and I have to find a good exterior cage to fit it in on my roof.
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Absolutely — 4Dsky is perfectly positioned to carve out a niche and become the leader in next-gen drone detection.
With giants like Amazon gearing up for global drone delivery, the sector is about to explode. Our skies will soon be buzzing with drones, flight paths, and real-time data, and the world will need a universal traffic layer to keep everything safe and coordinated.
A decentralized system like 4Dsky makes total sense — open, shared, resilient, and not owned by any single corporation. If this model works, it won’t just participate in the coming drone boom…it’ll define the infrastructure that boom depends on.
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I am bullish on this project:
I think 4Dsky is a strong project because it tackles one of the biggest challenges facing the drone industry: scalable, safe air-traffic control. Instead of relying on a single centralized authority, it uses a decentralized network of sky-vision nodes that rewards contributors for accurate, reliable data. This approach creates an open, permissionless, and resilient system that can grow alongside global drone adoption. With the potential to support everything from deliveries to emergency response, 4Dsky offers a realistic and innovative path toward managing the future low-altitude airspace.
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BEARISH
Not for the project (which is great) but for marketing reasons. In this case I think Wingbits is still ahead as:
Wingbits device is cheaper, even combined with GEOD
With Wingbits you cannot mine “sellable” tokens yet, BUT you can with the Wing+Geod combination (see point above), so you can increase your ROI and reduce time to breakeven thanks to the Geod part
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@VEMP if I understand you correctly, if you are banking entirely on today's return and don't care if what you are mining has a future - wingbits.
But 4Dsky and Neuron has been building their tech and actual relationships with usecases for the last 4 year without shilling some void of true value token.
So if you are looking for a project that is lined up to have Real Utility and an Actual Long Term Future not just a quick flip/cash dump, Then 4Dsky/Neuron
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@VEMP correct, it's a more expensive unit, and we don’t have dual mining. But it's what our customers have asked for. So you have to weigh up whether you want a hobby or a business.
Selling unsecured ADS-B data is difficult, because you can get it for free from Opensky network already. Its a hard sell, especially when you are joining a market with 12 already established competitors.
Secure high precision ADSB, MLAT, UAT, and Flarm data, delivered via a low latency, high availability edge network, is only possible via 4DSKY. Zero competitors, clear USP.
4DSKY isn't just a flight tracking network. It's an infrastructure upgrade. This is why we were awarded a CAA contract for $450K
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@james_4dsky As I mentioned earlier, my comparison wasn’t meant to be technical, we are in fact considering purchasing some units.
My concern is more about how the market might perceive the overall package: the project, the pricing, the delayed ROI, and so on. I’ve seen great products fail simply because of small misalignments in marketing or value proposition. And I don’t want 4DSky to fail, I want it to succeed, as the success of a depin project is a success for the community.
In the short term, my sentiment is somewhat bearish because, although the product may genuinely be stronger than Wingbits, there are a few issues:
The price is higher, and the ROI timeline appears further out compared to WB.
Helium Deploy currently sells 78 different DePIN products (which is overwhelming…), making it hard for any single product to stand out.
Wingbits is, to some extent, backed by Geodnet, which has been distributing sellable tokens for at least two years. This gives WB a reputational advantage and a sense of stability within the DePIN space, even if is not their reputation but the reputation of Geodnet.
I genuinely believe that with a few adjustments, 4DSky could be perceived as a game changer and positively shift the sentiment of not only the 31% of voters but the broader community as well. In my opinion, having a superior product isn’t enough on its own; additional elements are needed; such as a clearer timeline, an idea of the contract sizes you aim to secure by each year-end, and a better sense of the business scale we’re contributing to.
From my perspective, Wingbits hasn’t shared this type of information with its miners. Perhaps this is exactly where 4DSky could differentiate itself: by being more transparent and communicative.
Please know that my intention is absolutely not to undermine the project, quite the opposite indeed. I hope these points can help spark a constructive discussion and close this gap. 😊
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I am into aviation and im very bullish on this project.
The pricing of the units is a little bit high tho
Looking forward to see whats gonna happen between 4dsky and wingbits, maybe they do something together
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@Massacre the quality of the device is much better for 4Dsky, so many issues with the wingbits devices. They keep getting fried.
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@Brunator idk about 4dsky but i got 5 diy wingbits and i am not complaining, got a lot of wings points/tokens and untill now i aint got a problem with the devices or anything getting fried
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@Brunator 4dsky specifically say to ground the antenna to prevent static damage in the instructions and not responsible for damage
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I am bullish on 4DSky because DEPIN is entering a pivotal moment in web3
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Wingbit and GEOD combo here. As mentioned by others the cost is too high for the device. I understand it’s supposed to track drones as well hence the bullish.
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@bodybybody ADS-B only accounts for about 50% of the aircraft flying at any given point in time. Its also not secure. To track all aircraft securely, which is what the vast majority of customers need, you need 2 antennas and MLAT.
Geodnet is a great project though, so cannot fault it.
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As a WingBits and GEOD deployer I’m struggling to see why this is better or different, I think in this space it’s needs to a be a simple process and cannot see why the price for the unit is what it is. I’ll watch from the sideline and see how this progresses but I doubt I’ll venture into deploying them the way WingBits and GEOD are being deployed, if the price was cheaper it’s worth considering but even then the demand for the project is huge question mark ❔
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@TheDePINDOC quality of the 4Dsky device and it can track more aircrafts: ADB-S, FLARM and UAT.
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@Brunator yeah but I’m still confused as to why I’d want it, with WingBits I can see what the miner is doing at any time using the tools, with 4Dsky I’m being told you can’t see any of the data and the price is double
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@TheDePINDOC who told you that? It's factually incorrect. See attached data that comes from the device. You can also see a video of our app here:
https://youtu.be/zde7o1s3Lr4?si=TLKN1zF09JDa8JGl
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@james_4dsky even with that data (of which I can get on the graphs1090 with WingBits)
I’ll wait for the price to come down, if I can get one cheap I’ll do it but I’m not paying a 1k USD for something I can get a dual miner for, seems counter logical and struggling to see why it’s necessary
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Great project, solving a growing problem. I see a great potential/growth ahead for this company. Bullish 100%
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So far from the info I’ve heard I am leaning bullish.
People say “this exists today”…well, so do most depin projects. There were already RTK service providers out there before Geodnet, but they did it better and cheaper than the others and won the market.
Similar story here; if 4DSKY’s technology is better by giving more accurate tracking data and better traffic management, and are able to do it at a cheaper cost than existing systems (such as us, as the depin deployers), then why would they not succeed?
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How is this any different from GEODNET and WINGBITS? They already provide data and GEODNET has rewards and WINGBITS mainnet is due soon. They both have a platform and WINGBITS is more advanced and aggressive in getting real market share. Soon the token will go live. GOEDNET already claims to want to cover the drone and bot apps and networks. GOEDNET needs more work expanding their market. WINGBITS is very aggressive in programming and expansion of what they want to offer. Visible improvements. And that’s a lot of work.
4Dsky. Just a word of what they are trying to accomplish with drones and provide data already available from other sources. What is the revenue from drone management? I think we are several years out from drones taking over the sky. Too much risk and not a stable system yet. We are a few more years away from the ‘jetsons’ future and allowing drones to roam free. The equipment is rather expensive. How does it work with overlap from GEODNET, Wingbits and flightradar24, flightaware provided data?
I love flight data and flight tracking info. The screen examples look pretty cool that were shown on another post, but again, where is the base for the price I will have to pay. I can’t see station location coverage and flights tracked.
The plus, its using Hedera Hashgraph HBAR token network. That’s a very good positive. Helium Deploy is distributing in USA and can help provide service. That’s good.
The negative, very new and competition with already established services and other DePIN projects make this one challenging. Entry Price is expensive. Big for profit corporations are still far away from trusting a decentralized backbone without an impressive interface that works with what they have. Other Depin projects have shown and proven to industry they have the backbone and the rapdily growing network to support the needs.
I would need to see it in action in my area and I need to see how the development and expansion plans are progressing. If there is any failure on rapid expansion, which the starting price is limiting, I’m afraid this project could fall out of favor. 4sky needs to expand their definition and explanation of what they’re doing and target audience engagement.
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@eye4detail Followup after reviewing the tech. I like the MLAT format, but it’s considered secondary to ADS-B. I’m in USA and this is a secondary system with very little use. It seems the UK govt issued a grant to 4dsky and MLAT may be a more valuable system in Europe under ICAO, still secondary. It does make sense to place one of these next to an ADS-B system as a backup. But again the future would need investments from Government or agencies that use and incorporate this data. MLAT data relies on stations at least 2KM apart to triangulate signal data. The two antennas included need to be mounted at lease 25 cm apart. 4sky didn’t explain well the placement of stations required for triangulation just that no hexes are required and they mention the more stations installed will reduce earnings, dilution. I would think that more stations closer together but greater than 2 km would improve rewards and accuracy, not reduce.
There needs to be milestone charts with their progress. The price for a unit is expensive. The plus over ads-b, it should pickup local traffic over an antenna and signal gain shouldn’t be an issue that causes ads-b systems to drop out on specific aircraft. It may pickup aircraft not broadcasting ads-b but not sure about this. The aircraft has to broadcast something on the antenna frequency. other than the UK govt grant what are the other revenue generating resources? Other govt. grants? Customers public or private?
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@eye4detail thanks for the long post, but maybe I can help quash some myths:
1) MLAT is a requirement from our customers. They said they need it
2) ADS-B is not secure by itself without MLAT.
3) Can you name a top flight tracking network which doesn't have MLAT? Flightradar24 - MLAT, FlightAware - MLAT, Planefinder - MLAT
4) 4DSKY is an edge network. This is the core USP for customers
5) Because of it's edge capabilities, 4DSKY beats other flight tracking networks on all metrics:
Lowest data latency
Highest availability
Open-source
No single point of failure
Raw mode-S data availability
Actually decentralised
6) We already have paying customers, and we’re scaling revenue pre TGE
7) Founders are both experts in aviation
8) Our board advisor exited to Cirium aviation analytics company for $250M, and his role was to sell flight data to customers and tailor the product
9) Currently undertaking a contract for the CAA, and an airport
10) Our UI is 3D - most important point! 😎
Our biggest competitors are Flightradar24, FlightAware, and Planefinder, and we’re focused on signal rather than noise. Hype sells, but its only short term ✌️
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As controled as the airspace is by the US goverment by many different agencies, I can not see a fully independ group being allowed to run such a program. First near collision with a drone controled by Depin network will result in the end of the program or worse the total loss of a aircraft with souls on board will end in a law suit that will turn in to a shit show that will drag the whole program into court. Just look at the amount of legal actions lodged against Tesla and there still is a driver in the car seat. huge risk to take for such an expensive project, with a unknown reward outcome.
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@battlestarsyracuse+6d0332ee this is why software assurance and MLAT is neccesary in these environments. We’ve been working with the regulator for 3 years on this. 4DSKY makes things safer. ADS-B only devices create security risks
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I was impressed enough by the initial concept to want to get in on it early on, when I first heard of it. I've been quite happy letting my investment tick over, watching the team build the project toward mainstream adoption by aviation companies that would be able to make use of the data we are gathering.
The idea that the data could be a boon to the blossoming drone industry takes it to a whole new level. It's just a case of selling it to drone management companies, which of course, is in the capable hands of the development team.
I await developments with breath suitably bated!
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Overall, I’m leaning pretty positive on the project, and I like the direction it’s heading. I see some overlap with other project but 4Dsky picks up some other data points that can make it stand out from other DePINs
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I like this idea but no cash yet for the device.
I do believe it will help from what i have read but need to get more details myself to understand it further. The rewards are pretty straight forward which is nice.
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Wish the miner was a little more budget friendly.
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I believe this is a great concept and once fully operational will be a game changer for the aviation industry.
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The drop in the token price is my main concern. GeoNet has fallen but still maintaining around .13-.16 per token. This token has fallen to .01, making the ROI very long. Still very hopeful they find there footing
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As someone who loves aviation, I’m really excited about what this team is building, very similar to how I felt with Wingbits. Having another DePIN project in the aviation space is a big win for the whole ecosystem. From what I’ve seen, James really knows this industry, and he’s surrounded himself with solid professionals. On top of that, the hardware is being manufactured by a reputable company, which gives me even more confidence.
Putting the tech side aside for a moment, I’m not a financial advisor, but I am someone who likes to be early on projects I believe in. If the team executes well and the project succeeds, being early can make a huge difference in the potential returns.
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I am very excited to get my hands on one of these! It has great potential!
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Definitely early, but I think this is a promising project. I like that the hardware is built by a legit manufacturer.
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I think James and the team are very strong! I like the fact that it’s super early with only 200 devices deployed. Also I like the fact that it’s only one per 2KM. On the flip side since it’s so early, the token is not live and we have to see if they will be able to get paying clients on the network.
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Too expensive for what you get out of it.
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@Bitbeard it's actually very cheap for a professional sensors. For example:
uAvionix Pingstation 3 - $2800
You can buy cheap ADS-B only sensors on Amazon for $40:
4DSKY isn’t building a hobby network
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4DSKY
Hell no 4d sky is a blatant wingbits clone. Wingbits is already RemoteID compliant for drones and robots.
This is a scam